Cascade Bicycle Club Message Boards

Message Boards

Bicycling Stories

Navigation:

login

FORUMS > Bike Talk

Topic Title: strange sign painted in bike lane
Created On Saturday November 01, 2008 12:09 AM

Topic View:


	Pages: [ 1 2 3 4 >> Next ]

m bicicletta
Member

Posts: 33
Joined: Jul 2003

Saturday November 01, 2008 12:09 AM

this is about a block west of the intersection of Myrtle and beacon avenue south going northbound.
Anyone know what it's doing there?

Rob Brown
Senior Member

Posts: 3862
Joined: May 2003

Saturday November 01, 2008 12:40 AM

Looks like someone is marking an accident site, or possibly pointing out the possibility of one
impending. Seems to be a cyclist down, helmet off, with severe head trauma.

-------------------------
Rob - ***Car-Free since 1993***

Mark Proulx
Senior Member

Posts: 255
Joined: May 2007

Saturday November 01, 2008 12:53 AM

That'd be my take on it.

Eden Palmer
Senior Member

Posts: 1075
Joined: May 2005

Saturday November 01, 2008 2:27 AM

Looks like someone's sick idea of a joke to me....

m bicicletta
Member

Posts: 33
Joined: Jul 2003

Saturday November 01, 2008 10:15 AM

that's what I thought too, Eden
I reported it to the city, "walkandbike" they are usually pretty good at responding.

Edited: Saturday November 01, 2008 at 10:16 AM by m bicicletta

Mark Proulx
Senior Member

Posts: 255
Joined: May 2007

Saturday November 01, 2008 11:57 AM

Eden:

I thought of the joke angle, but rejected it on the premise that the workmanship is too good. I doubt that there are many people who are sufficiently antagonistic toward cyclists who would take the time to cleanly cut a stencil of this size. On the other hand, in 1972, I lost $5 by betting that McGovern would take his home state of South Dakota, so I've been wrong before ;-)

Beck the biker
Senior Member

Posts: 871
Joined: Sep 2004

Saturday November 01, 2008 2:31 PM

no, Mark, it's bicyclists antagonistic towards Seattle's bike infrastructure.....

it's lame graffiti by some anti-accommodationalist or group of them that thinks bike infrastructure is the bane to city streetscape design.

a great political statement and political theatre, but lame. I wonder, if the people proud enough to paint that on city streets could comment on all the good infrastructure improvements seen around Seattle in the last 12 months...

anyone that wants a look at the rabid state of vehicular cycling advocates, check out the yahoo group 'chainguard' here heavy hitters like John Shubert (affiliated with the ACA), jon forestor (EC author), wayne pine (NC bike institute obstructionist) and others decry bicycling specific infrastructure of any kind and call master bike plans that call for redesign of public space 'fearmongering'..

a week or so ago they were griping about some SoCal's city's placement of 'change lanes to pass' signage. wasn't in the manual, so they'll be working fervently to block this signage, despite reports on their effectiveness.

the anti-accomodationalists are the lamest group of people that call themselves 'bicyclists' well, except if you count all the motorists that like to explain their harassment of you by prefacing it with "i'm a cyclist too"

sorry, there's some anger from me directed towards those that retard greater cycling participation in this country and the means communities are developing into good streetscape designs more accomodating towards cyclists.

i remember someone in here a few years ago, decrying the stone way plan and suggesting all cyclists would need to do is take the lanes across the aurora bridge to connect the cooridor between the zoo and downtown..... even for schoolchildren.

i find this breed of anti-accommodationalist and their attendant obstructionism disgusting.

Edited: Saturday November 01, 2008 at 2:33 PM by Beck the biker

leo stone
Senior Member

Posts: 2473
Joined: Dec 2003

Saturday November 01, 2008 2:53 PM

Rabid?

I've had my shots thank you very much.

Remember that Forrester and his ilk did defend the concept of adult cycling against the CPSC back in the seventies and those effective cycling concepts are valid for riding / sharing the road with motor traffic.

I do agree that some of it gets more 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' but I wouldn't reject effective cycling out of hand. If nothing else, if the installed cycling infrastructure is unsafe,or non-existant, knowing how to take the lane is mighty handy.

What would be interesting is to come up with a system, like effective cycling, that would blend both the vehicular cycling concept with valid and useful cycling infrastructure.

I don't reject either the vehicular cycling concept or safe well planned bicycle infrastructure, but find them both just tools in the seat bag to get the ultimate goal, just to be able to ride my bike in a safe and enjoyable manner.

gears to you...leo

-------------------------
No turn left unstoned

Eden Palmer
Senior Member

Posts: 1075
Joined: May 2005

Saturday November 01, 2008 4:11 PM

I'm personally not against bike infrastructure if it is done correctly. I find that 99% of the bike infrastructure here in Seattle is very poorly planned and more dangerous to use than to avoid. That I strenuously object to. Like mama said "if you aren't going to do it right, don't do it at all".

m bicicletta
Member

Posts: 33
Joined: Jul 2003

Saturday November 01, 2008 4:31 PM

the street that this sign is on is one of the best bike lanes in Seattle, IMHO because there is almost no cross traffic and few cross streets. So why would someone make a picture of a cyclist falling
and spilling his brains? No friend of mine, i assure you.
Mimi

Rob Brown
Senior Member

Posts: 3862
Joined: May 2003

Saturday November 01, 2008 4:58 PM

I totally agree with Eden, we need biking infrastructure to save lives and prevent injuries. We need
correctly implemented biking infrastructure to save lives and prevent injuries and not add to the risk.
The worst thing is that the more poorly implemented infrastructure we get the more that future
additions will follow in that same soulless manner. Its not that much harder to do the lanes and
SHARROWS properly the 1st time around.

-------------------------
Rob - ***Car-Free since 1993***

Beck the biker
Senior Member

Posts: 871
Joined: Sep 2004

Sunday November 02, 2008 10:34 AM

'save lives and prevent injuries?'

that's the metric you use to judge cycling infrastructure?

wwell, lets see: a study done in several cities in Oregon showed a REDUCTION in intersection conflicts, and a reduction of sidewalk riding, at intersections that had bike lanes striped solid all the way to the intersection. does this mean, rob, that you would support bike lanes striped like this? studies show...

I'm not suggesting this, by the way. however, if safety is the metric, there is much quantitative analysis that bicycling facilities as seen in Berkeley, Denver, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle show an increase in bicycling while the accident rates remain flat.

a reduction in the indexed accident rate for bicyclists. safer.

bike infrastructure has multifarious purposes, increasing modal share, making motorists more cognizant of bicyclists on road, traffic calming that increases housing values while creating more liveable communities.

those decrying the infrastructure improvements in Seattle are, perhaps, crying wolf. I think that sharrows, designed soley for lanes too narrow to be safely shared, should be striped supersized and in the middle of the road, but that's just me.

The LACK of bicycling facilities will increase sidewalk cycling (ROB!) and increase gutter hugging. well implemented bike infrastructure reduces bike/car conflict (even the oregon model), makes motorists more cognizant of bikes on road, encourages greater cycling participation, and creates a network of routes across the city usable by more bicyclists and potential bicyclists.

look at portland, they have just reported an EIGHT PERCENT MODAL SHARE. and the accident rate remains fairly flat and does not rise lockstep with the increase of bicyclists. THAT'S what bicycling infrastructure can do for seattle, if the obstructionists and naysayers give it a chance to be placed, reworked, and changed.

the intersection at stone way and 40th? heading northbound is a great example of how easily the city can REDO poorly implemented infrastructure from the new bike master plan. painting graffiti does a disservice to bicycling in this community. the obstructionists should move to Kansas City or Detroit if they'd prefer a liitle more autocentric road planning.

Edited: Monday November 03, 2008 at 1:03 AM by Beck the biker

Rob Brown
Senior Member

Posts: 3862
Joined: May 2003

Sunday November 02, 2008 2:45 PM

Mike it is true that increasing ridership usually helps decrease accidents. However having
properly designed and implemented infrastructure increases that decline. Other cities
that have added bike lanes and so on are now redoing them with the lessons learned.
In Seattle we are having to learn these same lessons instead of relying on the experiences
of those in front of us. Added is that we are making some really silly, if not dangerous,
installations of bike lanes, SHARROWS and so on.

Personally I do not want the "Illusion" of safe infrastructure, I want Safe Infrastructure.
So I do not want to STOP our additions, I voted for them, however I want larger SHARROWS,
properly placed, with nomenclature. Bike Lanes need to be out of DOOR ZONES, and not
DOWN HILL at all, these need to have TAKE THE LANE SHARROWS in most cases. With
just a little more forethought we could have really great implementations instead of the
haphazard dreg we see now. Take a look at 45th West of I-5, 5th Ave South of Northgate
Way, and similar poor instances of implementation.

-------------------------
Rob - ***Car-Free since 1993***

Beck the biker
Senior Member

Posts: 871
Joined: Sep 2004

Sunday November 02, 2008 8:54 PM

*cough*

I'm sorry, rob, what do you mean by 'properly designed and implemented?' ..... are you suggesting 'vehicular operation'? almost all bike infrastructure is vehicular if road users follow the rules of the road...

What do you mean by 'SAFE?' roads are not safe, with or without infrastructure..... I opine 'safe' is the wrong expectation to have from stripes on the road. but the oregon model I reference reduced sidewalk cycling and intersection conflicts. something to chew on. These are vehicular road treatments if motorists follow the rules while bikes are present. They are proven to reduce accidents. SAFER. -the type of infrastructure you could endorse if you apply
the 'safer' metric.

I agree, some remediation of current bike infrastructure designs in seattle is needed. I think seattle could learn a few lessons from Berkeley and Portland and the boulevard concept of traffic calmed streets structured towards ease of pedestrian and bicycle use. the cars have enough public rights of way geared towards the ease of their use, and look where thats's got us - traffic congestion, pollution, an increasingly sedentary population....

Edited: Sunday November 02, 2008 at 9:21 PM by Beck the biker

Frank J
Senior Member

Posts: 138
Joined: May 2008

Monday November 03, 2008 1:04 PM

m bicicletta
Member

Posts: 33
Joined: Jul 2003

Monday November 03, 2008 4:59 PM

to those of you who showed concern, or thought it was funny; fyi, the city of Seattle did not think it was funny and they say they
will check it out and perhaps paint over it.

Scott Davison
Senior Member

Posts: 265
Joined: Jul 2008

Monday November 03, 2008 5:14 PM

This sign is common in France. It means "Female cyclists with ponytails should take off their helmets before fixing flat front tire".

What's wrong with that?

Edited: Monday November 03, 2008 at 5:21 PM by Scott Davison

Shawn Lucke
Junior Member

Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2007

Friday November 07, 2008 3:33 AM

It looks to me like it means; Look out for the bump ahead or you'll break a wheel and dump your coffee on your head.

-------------------------
Shawn

Shaun Darragh
Senior Member

Posts: 1046
Joined: Jun 2007

Friday November 07, 2008 3:48 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: Beck the biker
*cough*

I'm sorry, rob, what do you mean by 'properly designed and implemented?'

Hi Mike,

Perhaps you could identify a half dozen or so areas in which you feel the new bicycling "improvements" have been implemented well since adoption of the BMP? Please keep the examples in the City of Seattle.

TIA

-------------------------
Please support my fight against Cancer by sponsoring me in the Livestrong Challenge: http://seattle09.livestrong.org/shaund

Beck the biker
Senior Member

Posts: 871
Joined: Sep 2004

Friday November 07, 2008 6:16 PM

lets see:

i'd have to make a list. i ride across good infrastructure on a daily basis within the city limits. I specifically mention how easy it is to improve misapplied initial improvement designs, and most fundament to me on this is the redesign of the intersection at 40th and stone way- initially this spring the bike lane was on the right of significant traffic turning right, look at it now. there are a couple of other redesigns I've seen of initial stripes this spring giving way to new paint.

it's easy for the city to restripe. the mayor himself has said 'paint is cheap.' i saw the redesign of the design at stone way and 40th happen in less than 4 months.

what do you want? i'd have to compare what WASN'T here before, and quite honestly, the last 15 years of riding daily across the city, the process has been gradual and slow.

I seem to recall when pine didn't have an uphill bike lane, nor stone way, roy didn't have the uphill bike lane, and there weren't any sharrows across town on all sorts of streets. I see a lot of double striped bike lanes which, in my estimation of the rest of my riding compatriots, seem mostly rideable in a vehicular manner and increases the safety and visibility of riders along busier arterials. eight in ballard heading north is one example of a single striped wide bike/parking lane that really does work well for road users.

when i asked rob what he meant by 'proper', i wondered what HE meant? safety, 'vehicular' operation..... both of which are met by a lot of bike specific infrastructure, even the oregon model of bike lanes striped solid all the way to the intersection and to the right of potential right turning traffic. safer, vehicular too if everyone follows basic rules of the road.

i think you need to ask Rob what HE meant by 'properly designed?'

what are YOUR parameters for 'proper' design of bike infrastructure, Shaun? vehicularity, rideability, safety, popularity, visibility?

and there's all the wayfinding signage popping up...

Edited: Friday November 07, 2008 at 6:18 PM by Beck the biker


	Pages: [ 1 2 3 4 >> Next ]

FORUMS > Bike Talk

Navigation:

home | events & rides | education | advocacy | community | about | site map | contact

© 2002 Cascade Bicycle Club. All rights reserved. Terms of Use & Privacy Policy. About this site.